Curse

w00t! · Nov 02, 2005, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Good build suggestions so far; lots of stuff for me to try.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

I don't really think that way... Tanks can survive by themselves lol... It's the casters, nukers and all other sorts that need this protection. Plus, the mob changes targets very often :P.

In other words, you're wasting yourself on just one ally, instead of all group... and notice that YOU CAN protect all the party, it's not like you're limited to one person.

One thing to realise is that this build is NOT MEANT to protect the party. The entire Sorrow's Furnace proposition is built around a single tank aggroing, using either good teamwork, a gear, or a powder keg. In the cases where other aggro occurs (without the keg or gear, or in mesmer heavy areas), the healers handle it and the casters know how to clear aggro (pick plays, etc.)

Our team is almost always:
1 Tank
2 Echo Nukers (either E/Me or Me/E, funny, it doesn't seem to matter much)
1 Pure healer
1 Prot / Heal or 1 Prot / Smite

Monking as a pure healer is easy, whereas monking as a Prot or Prot hybrid takes real finesse.

And to Super Dooper's point, yes, the enchantments will get knocked down; depending on the area anywhere from 1 to 4 will get taken down. To counter this, cast your spells in a specific order - I use Life Bond, Mend, Essence Bond. That way the Life Bond will be the last to go. Also, just before the warrior draws aggro in buster areas we two monks will cast Breeze, Seed, and Vigerous Spirit. That way those enchantments are busted first.

The build I'm using and want to fine tune is very specific; I realize that this is not a good general-purpose build, and may not even work well for FoW (though it seems to thus far.) But I really enjoy running Sorrow's Furnace with a group of 5 in an area designed for 8. You're dancing on a razor's edge most of the time, even when using the gear or keg exploit. We can do a FA run in 45 minutes, hitting 7-8 bosses along the way. Lots of fun, and everyone knows their job. Also, gives me lots of greens to give to guildmates.

This is a build for a 5 person, 2 monk team. Looks like many of the suggestions have come from people who are used to that setup. 5 seems to be the magic number for competent teams to clear areas quickly and share in lots of loot.

Shwitz · Nov 02, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Just gotta watch out for Summit Dark Binders, w00t! Well of the Profane will knock all those wonderful enchantments down at once, which makes me a sad monk :-(

Manfred · Nov 02, 2005, 07:46 PM // 19:46

in pvp, a life bond monk is awesome as the restore conditions member of a martyr/restore combo.

super dooper · Nov 03, 2005, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shwitz

Just gotta watch out for Summit Dark Binders, w00t! Well of the Profane will knock all those wonderful enchantments down at once, which makes me a sad monk :-(

they only use Well of Suffering though, I'd be sad too if they used Profane..

nakama · Nov 03, 2005, 12:40 PM // 12:40

I'll try to be a bit more on-topic with post (Comparing our 2 builds makes me say that they are pretty different)

I'm wondering how your attributes are spread out. WoH and Dwayna's seem to do some pretty high healing so I think most points are in healing prayers?

The build Esona posted used life attunement, I'm thinking you might consider switching mending with that one. Maybe the tank in question won't be thrilled by the prospect of dealing less damage, but that's what the nukers are for anyway

... With all the enchantments up and by using life attunement, dwayna's kiss should be able to do some serious healing, probably way better then the extra 4 pips mending gives. (of course all the other heal spells will profit from it as well (excluding breeze) )

Just a little tweak, but imho sounds sounds like it should work.

EDIT:
You might allso consider switching essence bond to balthazars spirit.. Cast it on yourself, it will trigger on life bond (having the same net results). The advantage of using balthz over essence bond is that you can allso cast it on the tank as a cover-up enchant, so it will be first to go.

ange1 · Nov 03, 2005, 01:18 PM // 13:18

does balthazar spirit get trigger on 0 damage from life bond?

nakama · Nov 03, 2005, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Quote:

does balthazar spirit get trigger on 0 damage from life bond?

Short answer: yes

Seems a little buggish to me, but works!

Savior Of Faith · Nov 03, 2005, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Heres my build for FA farming, Mantra of Inscriptions pfft. Not needed with this energy machine:

Life Barrier{E}
Life Bond
Essence Bond
Balths Spirit
Protective Spirit
Reversal of Fortune
Vigorous Spirit
Blessed Signet

Prot 16
Divine 15

I kept the 4 man team alive without a healing monk doing this set up many times, altho a healer can help if he isnt inept. Heres the order I start with in grenths. Barrer/Bond/Essence on Tank, Balths spirit on myself, hit blessed sig then proceed to bond everyone else to make things go smoother. I then essence bond myself to bring total enchants im maintaining to 8 (max for divine favor at 15 with blesses sig of 24 energy return) just becauase aggro gets messy prior to SF at times. I dont need mantra at all

Now some of you may be wondering why Vigorous spirit. Well in SF theres two things that remove enchantments you need to constantly be looking for: Tasmasters and Dark Binders. You can tell which is removing, as you will see a spike in the tanks life if he gets Shatter Enchanted from Taskmasters, or a green aura around him from Strip Enchantment of Dark Binders. Prot spirit isnt even needed for SF, as barrier and bonds reduce the dmg the tank is taking to way less than 10% of their max life, but its good in GF at times and its another buff i can put in front of the bonds. Vigorous Spirit lasts 30 seconds no matter what you have in healing, yet 4 second recharge, so it is very spammable. Prot spirit for me lasts 24+ seconds with 5 second recharge so it can be spammable aswell. It is a rare instance in SF when one essence,bond, or barrier gets removed off the tank im protting. If anyone has any questions about it you can pm me in game, i dont check these forums much. name is the same in game. gl

Savior Of Faith · Nov 03, 2005, 01:48 PM // 13:48

gah double post, disregard >.<

SaintGreg · Nov 03, 2005, 01:52 PM // 13:52

even better is if the tank brings balthazar's spirit and retribution and puts spirit on bottom, and retribution on top of all the enchantments the prot monk puts on him. That way he can always keep a cover up and never needs the prot monk to re-prot him. Plus once he gets the keg he has infinite energy almost.

w00t! · Nov 05, 2005, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savior Of Faith

Heres my build for FA farming, Mantra of Inscriptions pfft. Not needed with this energy machine:

Life Barrier{E}
Life Bond
Essence Bond
Balths Spirit
Protective Spirit
Reversal of Fortune
Vigorous Spirit
Blessed Signet

Prot 16
Divine 15

I kept the 4 man team alive without a healing monk doing this set up many times, altho a healer can help if he isnt inept. Heres the order I start with in grenths. Barrer/Bond/Essence on Tank, Balths spirit on myself, hit blessed sig then proceed to bond everyone else to make things go smoother. I then essence bond myself to bring total enchants im maintaining to 8 (max for divine favor at 15 with blesses sig of 24 energy return) just becauase aggro gets messy prior to SF at times. I dont need mantra at all

Now some of you may be wondering why Vigorous spirit. Well in SF theres two things that remove enchantments you need to constantly be looking for: Tasmasters and Dark Binders. You can tell which is removing, as you will see a spike in the tanks life if he gets Shatter Enchanted from Taskmasters, or a green aura around him from Strip Enchantment of Dark Binders. Prot spirit isnt even needed for SF, as barrier and bonds reduce the dmg the tank is taking to way less than 10% of their max life, but its good in GF at times and its another buff i can put in front of the bonds. Vigorous Spirit lasts 30 seconds no matter what you have in healing, yet 4 second recharge, so it is very spammable. Prot spirit for me lasts 24+ seconds with 5 second recharge so it can be spammable aswell. It is a rare instance in SF when one essence,bond, or barrier gets removed off the tank im protting. If anyone has any questions about it you can pm me in game, i dont check these forums much. name is the same in game. gl

Good build. I tried a very similar one to this with great success. In fact, this build is so good that it's almost boring. The only modification that I made was to remove Protective Spirit and put in Divine Healing as an emergency heal.

I totally agree with you about the value of Vigorous Spirit. I use it to great effect in SF as there is lots of minor damage and degen that Vigorous Spirit can negate just as well as breeze. In fact, it's better than breeze and you can "cast and forget", especially if you're using a Yakslapper. Next time down there I'll try Balth's Spirit and see if it works even better. Thanks much for the advice.

jesh · Nov 05, 2005, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savior Of Faith

Heres my build for FA farming, Mantra of Inscriptions pfft. Not needed with this energy machine:

Life Barrier{E}
Life Bond
Essence Bond
Balths Spirit
Protective Spirit
Reversal of Fortune
Vigorous Spirit
Blessed Signet

Prot 16
Divine 15

I kept the 4 man team alive without a healing monk doing this set up many times, altho a healer can help if he isnt inept. Heres the order I start with in grenths. Barrer/Bond/Essence on Tank, Balths spirit on myself, hit blessed sig then proceed to bond everyone else to make things go smoother. I then essence bond myself to bring total enchants im maintaining to 8 (max for divine favor at 15 with blesses sig of 24 energy return) just becauase aggro gets messy prior to SF at times. I dont need mantra at all

Now some of you may be wondering why Vigorous spirit. Well in SF theres two things that remove enchantments you need to constantly be looking for: Tasmasters and Dark Binders. You can tell which is removing, as you will see a spike in the tanks life if he gets Shatter Enchanted from Taskmasters, or a green aura around him from Strip Enchantment of Dark Binders. Prot spirit isnt even needed for SF, as barrier and bonds reduce the dmg the tank is taking to way less than 10% of their max life, but its good in GF at times and its another buff i can put in front of the bonds. Vigorous Spirit lasts 30 seconds no matter what you have in healing, yet 4 second recharge, so it is very spammable. Prot spirit for me lasts 24+ seconds with 5 second recharge so it can be spammable aswell. It is a rare instance in SF when one essence,bond, or barrier gets removed off the tank im protting. If anyone has any questions about it you can pm me in game, i dont check these forums much. name is the same in game. gl

Pretty similair to what I use on my monk when I chose to fill that role.. except I've always been to lazy to cap life barrier. I use life attunement instead. Instead of Vigorous I just use RoF. The elite I take is Aura of Faith, and I use 16 DF and 13 Prot, with a DF 20/20 item and a +5 henge sword with +20% on enchants.

It's true that SF/GF is supposed to be about teamwork, blah blah.. but the cold hard truth is, unless you're not in a PUG, you never get a group without a moron or more. All it takes is one to mess up, which is why EVERYONE needs to be bonded.. this is more directed at the original poster with his mending. *shudder*

Anyway, when I go to SF/GF I always party with my friend Stew. He plays a healer boon monk. It's not uncommon to see him throwing around 600 point heals. And word is crap. It takes up a slot you could at least use on a real energy management skill.

Gold the Great · Nov 05, 2005, 07:07 AM // 07:07

I dont know if it helps but I have done many FA farms and as long as you have a team that understands the tank aggros this build works great for me.

Casting in this order
Life Barrier
Life Bond
Mending
Essance

I also then carry

Orison
Remove hex...for other than tank
Blessed Sig
Bals Aura

Now I know many will chastise no rez but I warn the group up front...if the group makes an attempt at staying out of aggro no one ever dies through the entire run. I also found that when the tank gets good aggro bals aura does so well with the added dmg that things die so quick they cant do enough damge in such short order.

I do admit that I have to keep very good eye on enchants but over all this build seems to rock with a decent group and have gotten many compliments on the protection.

BTW I do this with SUP heal, prot, and smite....= 321? hp...but I dont ever seem to die

w00t! · Nov 05, 2005, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

It's true that SF/GF is supposed to be about teamwork, blah blah.. but the cold hard truth is, unless you're not in a PUG, you never get a group without a moron or more. All it takes is one to mess up, which is why EVERYONE needs to be bonded.. this is more directed at the original poster with his mending. *shudder*

And word is crap. It takes up a slot you could at least use on a real energy management skill.

Well, the thing is, PUG's are a sure route to faillure down there. Probably 90% of the players don't understand aggro management. If they do, then there is no need to Life Bond anyone else in the party. If they don't, then Life Bond is only going to prolong the pain of being in a bad group.

I also disagree about the value of Word. There are times in SF where you need significant healing (like when the tanks enchantments are stripped). Life Bond is spammable in those circumstances and can keep the tank alive.

Having said that, I'm going to switch to the Barrier / Bond build, as I like it better. So there's no room for Word even if I wanted it.

The build that's worked for me the last couple times, with no deaths in my regular group during FA speed runs is:

Blessed Signit
Life Bond
Life Barrier
Essence Bond
Balthazar's Spirit
Vigerous Spirit or spammable healing to keep me from getting bored
Reversal of Fortune or spammable healing
Rebirth (try as I like, I can't ever get rid of rezz's as a Monk)

Thanks for all the great advice from everyone. I'm going to keep tweaking things, but your posts have already made me more effective (and this comes from someone with several hundred hours experience monking).

jesh · Nov 05, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t!

Well, the thing is, PUG's are a sure route to faillure down there. Probably 90% of the players don't understand aggro management. If they do, then there is no need to Life Bond anyone else in the party. If they don't, then Life Bond is only going to prolong the pain of being in a bad group.

Uh .. what? No offense, but me and my friend can keep any pug alive, no matter how incredibly bad they are. That's why you prepare for the worst, not for a super ideal that is the very best situation imaginable. If you're playing with guild mates, you could probably do fine with just OoB and Heal other. I don't see what your point is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t!

I also disagree about the value of Word. There are times in SF where you need significant healing (like when the tanks enchantments are stripped). Life Bond is spammable in those circumstances and can keep the tank alive.

Please tell me how Word of Healing heals for "significantly" more than Heal Other. It doesn't. And it wastes your elite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t!

Having said that, I'm going to switch to the Barrier / Bond build, as I like it better. So there's no room for Word even if I wanted it.

The build that's worked for me the last couple times, with no deaths in my regular group during FA speed runs is:

Blessed Signit
Life Bond
Life Barrier
Essence Bond
Balthazar's Spirit
Vigerous Spirit or spammable healing to keep me from getting bored
Reversal of Fortune or spammable healing
Rebirth (try as I like, I can't ever get rid of rezz's as a Monk)

Thanks for all the great advice from everyone. I'm going to keep tweaking things, but your posts have already made me more effective (and this comes from someone with several hundred hours experience monking).

You keep spelling "signet" wrong.